Building Inner Resilience with Dr. Marie-Helene Pelletier

Christine Gyovai 00:34

Welcome to the We RISE Podcast, where we are building collective resilience.

I’m your host Christine Gyovai, business owner, wife, mother of 2, paddle border, and I love working with communities across the nation.

Join me as I share stories and strategies to inspire action to build resilience and community transformation.

From the Navajo Nation to the Mountains of Appalachia.

Incredible work is being done by community members and leaders.

Christine Gyovai 01:14

I’m excited to share more on the podcast today.

Welcome.

Welcome back to the Yes We rise podcast all.

We’re so glad that you’re here and I’m excited to introduce you to doctor Marie-Helene Pelletier.

This episode is connected with our overall community resilience strategy framework that we’ve been exploring this year, particularly the first strategy around community resilience, communities creating change and belonging was an episode that we released, episode 51 that explored this topic where community members really are the ones who have the power to determine their future.

Christine Gyovai 01:47

And building inner resilience, which you’ll hear this guy to speak about is really a key part of being able to build the resilience of communities, regions and beyond.

And really, core part of this community resilient strategy is that community members have the ideas that they need to shape their own futures because they’re the ones who are the most qualified to determine the design and the future of their communities.

Often when people are experiencing burnout or a lot of stress, it’s hard to envision what that future might be.

So Dr. Marie-Helene Pelletier talked about in this episode what it takes to build inner resilience.

Christine Gyovai 02:15

Dr. Marie-Helene Pelletier is an award winning workplace mental health expert, psychologist, advisor, and speaker.

Marie Helene brings a signature mix of business and clinical experience and expertise to the group she works with.

She translates psychology research about health, resilience and overcoming challenges into strategies, professionals, business leaders and their teams need to thrive.

She’s a bilingual practicing psychologist who combines clinical, counseling, and workplace psychology.

Welcome to this episode.

Christine Gyovai 02:29

I hope you enjoy.

Hey, welcome.

Yes, We Rise Listeners really excited have Marie-Helene Pelletier on our show today.

I thank you so much for joining M.H.

Will you please introduce yourself so folks know who I have the delight of speaking to.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 02:50

And my delight as well to speak with you Christine.

So yes, full name is Marie-Helene Pelletier, originally from Quebec on the East Coast in Canada.

I now live on the West Coast in Vancouver, British Columbia.

I’m a registered psychologist, and I’ve worked in a work placement to help my entire career.

I have a combination of the psychology background.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 03:00

So I got a PhD there and the business background for the NBA, and I’ve worked in leadership for years.

So that’s the sort of the perspectives that I bring together in my work on resilience.

Christine Gyovai 03:09

Wonderful.

Tell us a little bit more about why those 2 arms so often those 2 things go hand in hand, but why business and psychology together, the MBA?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 03:37

Yeah.

It’s probably a combination of me personally and how they want it to go together, I think.

But for me personally, the way it happened, so I did my PhD at 20 years ago.

And at the time, the research I was doing, it was time to even community resilience in a way, because I was exploring the efficacy of providing psychotherapy via video conferencing.

But then 20 years ago, remember, Internet was not fast enough to deliver that kind of data.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 03:56

So I had to use 6 telephone lines to translate for video and and audio data.

And therefore, I needed a lot of funding.

To manage this type of research.

I needed to hire people that I had to just manage from not even having money to pay them, just volunteer.

So a lot of management of people and money was involved in doing this type of research.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 04:30

And so as that completed, I looked at what I was passionate about, and I was still passionate about psychology and bringing psychology to as many people as I could, and I became passionate about business.

So that’s what brought me to doing an MBA, and then the combination worked very well for this work that I did in in workplace mental health so I could understand how organizations need to work and how individuals in them function.

So I’m not an organizational psychologist.

I’m a critical in counseling psychologist working in workplaces and and with leadership.

That’s how I got to it.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 04:48

But, of course, it made sense because the people I was working with, it sometimes, I’ve been called a translator and not just French to English or or the other, but translating psychology to business and business to psychology such that we can play in that intersection and all benefit from it.

Christine Gyovai 05:07

And it intersects in so many areas of our life, of course, and applies to our personal scale.

Tell us a little bit about really what’s exciting you about your research.

M h, and your work, you know, with people with their own individual mental health, organizational well-being, and how has that arc changed over the last few years?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 05:46

You know, psychologists, counseling and clinical psychologists will tend to be more focused on the individual, which is wonderful.

There’s lots.

A lot that we can do here.

For me, bringing this and the business background together in my individual experience as as a leader here really expanded, perhaps, where I wanted to contribute in including the individual resilience, but also the team resilience within an organization or a structure, any kind, and then the overall organization.

Even sometimes I go even broader to see and and all this, like the individual, the team, the organization, we are in this place.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 06:15

We are in this country.

We are in this moment in time that also will influence that system.

Right?

And that became very fascinating for me so that we could be even more overall together, powerful and increasing resilience if We attended to the various parts of that system as opposed to more the individual 1, which again, very important and valuable lots we can do here and even more if we act at different levels.

Christine Gyovai 06:57

So we do a lot of work around resilience and really at the community scale of resilience.

And as we were chatting earlier before we started recording, how that community scale resilience changes over time.

I heard a conversation on a Renee Brown interview that the guest said that resilience is really only built in community.

And in the last few years, there’s been quite a bit of pushback to some degree about resilience.

And I think that that comes in the individual scale and the expectation that People need to continue to be resilient in the face of insurmountable systemic systemic systemic racism, for example, that is a collective scale issue that really takes a collective scale response.

Christine Gyovai 07:37

And so I love this notion that resilience is really built at the community scale or the collect scale because it really is a shared learning.

And and I think we also often look at resilience in our work around not just bouncing back but bouncing forward.

You know, what does that resilient future look like?

So when you talk about those different parts that go into a system, what are some of the levers that you find that need to be moved to create that community scale resilience or organizational resilience or collective resilience.

What do you see really needs to shift beyond just the individual scale recognizing the importance as you’ve said m h of the individual scale, but really looking as a system as a whole.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 08:05

1 of the analogies that have been used to describe the situation you’re referring to, is that of how coal mine used to have a canary going in a coal mine.

And if canary was coming back, it was safe enough.

And sometimes the analogy has been, and many have used it.

I’m not the 1 inventing it.

With, oh, well, if we’re doing individual resilience, are we not just trying to make the canary tougher so the canary will still go in the mind that it’s unhealthy, but tough it out.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 08:18

Okay.

So, I both love and don’t love this analogy, and I’ll tell you why.

I love it because it makes the point so clearly about how this is a system.

It’s not just individual.

Okay.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 08:38

So love that part.

But I don’t love.

Is that we’re not a bird?

You know, there are many ways we will influence this.

And if we’re going to talk about the systemic, the team and the organizational resilience, we can only influence, team and organizational resilience, if we have enough resilience.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 08:58

Ourselves individually if we’ve got enough in the tank, right?

So that’s why we don’t want to throw the baby with, you know, too quickly.

We want to just take a step back, look at what is what, what fits where, and integrate all aspects.

Okay.

So that’s my piece about that conversation, which I think is an important 1.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 09:25

And I love that we’re having it.

In terms of levers, it will depend on each context, of course.

But some of it, so we can dive into examples of context, examples of challenges, perhaps, But initially, we it depends very much.

So I’ll give examples of potential scenarios.

In a scenario where Very little is currently being done.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 09:57

People are either very focused on the technical part, on the to do list or whatever, right?

It’s a journey.

A continuous journey regardless of where we’re at.

But if a team or an organization is very early, Then the ways we’re going to influence it often in my experience are going to be finding the very small ways in which it’s already happening.

Finding the champion, finding the small actions, and putting air on this so that it grows just like flame.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 10:15

Now we air it and becomes much bigger because then people will see it more.

People will get attracted to it more.

If we’re especially as a leader.

Anyone can do this because we can all influence.

And the leader is usually the 1 that will have even more impact if the throw air on that flame, right?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 10:34

Because then they’re sending a clear message that in this culture, the culture of this team, the culture of this organization, We value this.

And then that shows everyone how important this is.

So in a context early, that’s often a good way to get it started.

It won’t work all the time.

It won’t be perfected.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 10:43

There will be bumps.

All these things.

Don’t.

But then we want to be persistent and keep finding these spaces.

Keep winging the air.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 11:27

So in a in a in a place that’s a bit earlier in a process, that’s 1 thing I would be look looking to do.

And in in a context that has already done some of these things, we’re seeing more and more, then we’re probably ready to get a bit more organized around it, like building a plan.

Sometimes people like to use the word strategy if that’s how the organization thinks If that’s not the word that is preferred, maybe just a plan, it doesn’t matter.

They all mean the same thing.

The idea is to now start looking at recognizing what we have, which is also something to celebrate and, you know, in value, and then building on Okay.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 11:39

So what do we want to do next?

And when and how we’re going to get there?

What types of actions will bring these these directions to life?

Then I would go more strategic in that in that type of context.

Christine Gyovai 12:10

So it’s fascinating you brought up the canary in the coal mine example.

A lot of the work that we do is focus actually in coal mining communities, particularly in central appalachia.

And I think that’s an interesting example of communities who have had a lot of the natural wealth as well as economic wealth of the communities have have left in various ways.

Whether that’s been through wages that have left or the the natural resource verses that have left.

And and so there’s a different set of opportunities and challenges for building that initial resilience.

Christine Gyovai 12:38

To bring it back to the individual scale, can you talk a little bit about what you mean when you talk about individual resilience?

How do people build that?

And then at the organizational or community scale, what are the things that are really helpful to put in place so that people can even look ahead to create that strategy or plan or vision if you will?

That so essential and and we definitely believe that everyone has the ability to come to the table that resilience is built on the local ideas.

Of local leaders.

Christine Gyovai 13:00

That’s something we talk about a lot, and that people do have the, you know, wisdom within them innately to be able to guide their futures.

That’s something we absolutely believe.

But sometimes even just getting to the table can be challenging for some people.

So can you talk a little bit about that individual scale of resilience, and then what is helpful at that system scale resilience to be able to really look ahead to the future.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 13:18

Really good question and so I’ll start with the individual, but please bring me back to the having a hard time getting to the table.

I really want to make sure we touch on this.

And sometimes I get to, you know, par in my ideas over here, and I forgot this 1.

Okay, so on the individual scale.

You’re right.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 13:55

I love how you expressed this that we have the the wisdom already on the of the things, the actions, the choices that would likely increase our resilience, and you’re right.

If we look back and I often invite my audiences clients to think about this, you can do look back 05:10, 20 years, over just your life quickly even now, like in 10 seconds, the kinds of things you’ve done that have generally increased your resilience.

People will breathe and take a moment and then identify, oh, yeah.

I used to do this.

I used to play the guitar, not touched it, don’t even know where it is.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 14:39

Things like this, that then will bring come back to the surface and we’ve let it go.

So I would say that very often the main thing that’s missing is the clarity, the commitment of prioritizing it, putting it as a priority, French language.

So making creating it first, creating space for it.

It’s as if people will look at their overall life if I can if you can imagine that full rectangle Half of it is work and it’s full, so it’s all colored, and then the other half is my personal life, so it’s all open.

And then people will then sometimes see that they have so much more work or they’re asked or whatever, and they’ll start working here during their, well, a call personal time.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 15:18

Which means it will push those boundaries, those times you were trying to protect for your own resilience.

So my invitation on something like this is to change this, color, fully, the full personal life here.

It’s full, whether you’re needing it to watch a TV show or go for a longer walk with your dog or with someone you enjoy or on your own and the nature.

Consider the whole thing occupied so that when you’re making a choice to bring work on the personal side, It will hopefully help you keep in mind that you’re putting something else aside as a result.

It was not just open.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 15:48

So the priority is important.

And in terms of what you do in this time, there’s lots of research about number of areas, but the 4 that are possibly the most powerful variables in building this resilience, and not just our resilience.

It’s also true for our physical health, actually, and brain health.

So even if you’re seeing yourself as someone who’s working more with your brain, potentially, it still applies.

So we want exercise, and we do want, like, physical activity.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 15:59

We want cardio, strength training, and meditative type activity, all 3 on a weekly basis.

We want good nutrition, and I know it sounds like, oh, yeah.

Yeah.

No.

No.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 16:03

No.

It’s not just, oh, yeah.

Yeah.

The research — the growing research

Marie-Helene Pelletier 16:29

and I was recently at a talk between the American psychological association, the American Nutrition Association showing that the strength of these links and how fast we will feel it is significant.

So yes, nutrition.

Sleep and spending time with people we enjoy spending time with.

And that last 1 is a really good example.

Very often, people will say, Yes, I will do this.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 16:53

I will plan for a moment with a very good friend or someone I’ve not connected with.

And as things get busy, they cancel.

And so what I’m saying, what we’re saying is we need this shift your thinking, consider it like an appointment that you’ve made 6 months ago with a specialist that you have to keep.

You wouldn’t keep it.

You would figure out a way.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 17:04

That same way.

That’s how important.

That’s how top of the list this needs to be.

And there are many others like time in nature, doing volunteer work.

There are many others as well.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 17:37

But these are some examples on the individual front, just like the individuals are so different in their contexts, and that’s why it needs to be customized.

With the key piece, the key word here, is context.

Because sometimes we try to apply generic things, and we’re having things, generic, guidelines.

And either they don’t work, we don’t apply them, or we try it doesn’t work it’s often a problem of not having adapted them to the context.

And that’s extremely true on the personal, individual side.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 17:54

It’s also extremely true.

On the systemic side.

Right?

It’s similar, and that is an analogy I have in my book there.

But it’s, right, from a pure business perspective, if an organization is whatever, working on whatever their mission is, they will, for sure, look at the context.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 18:07

They won’t just say, oh, let’s provide this service and just go and try to provide it.

They’ll look around.

They’ll what else is going on already in this context?

Where are the gaps?

What are we going to bring differently?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 18:53

Like, context is front and center.

So We don’t want to let that go because now we’re talking about Brazil.

It’s exactly the same thing that will help us move it forward.

So all this to say, that if we’re having a hard time moving things forward, then and I love how you your timing also, sometimes how it feels personal at times like, you know, Like, I’ve tried so much, and now it’s not working so it could feel like my value is coming down.

It’s normal that the brain assigns us a bit of that or a lot, of that responsibility, because often the reaction is in a tough moment, Taking responsibility allows us to it’s not actual, but it feels like we have some control over it.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 19:10

But we actually don’t.

It’s a system.

It’s not it’s not all in our hands.

So on the personal side, we sometimes on a very concrete way I’ll I’ll say it is I’ll say, look.

Yes, you just had this meeting, or you’ve been trying to do this for a month, a year, or 3 years, doesn’t matter.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 19:58

Your your person, your value, as a person, as a professional, as whatever you are.

Seriously, if we took a thermometer today, and 3 years ago, you’re the same person.

So no change in that value, you need to keep you need to force yourself to remind this so that you keep That, sense of self worth, integrity, and confidence, and realize Again, very realistically and logically, you’re working with a big system here.

And so, yes, you can bring your influence, look for all the ways, and persist while taking care of yourself because there sometimes are limits to how much 1 can try?

But if you’re still in it and and you’re working towards it, keep that realistic perspective.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 20:02

You’re working to influence, but the system has to want the help too.

Christine Gyovai 20:36

Building collective resilience looks different in different places.

What stories and strategies inspire you?

Share your ideas with us on social media and check out our website at yeswe rise dot org to find the show notes, interview videos, and the links mentioned on the podcast today.

So I hear both at the individual scale and at the system scale and and sometimes it’s it’s looking around and seeing what’s out there.

So to bring it back to the individual scale for a moment, I love that you name the things that we know, but that we often don’t elevate as just being absolutely essential.

Christine Gyovai 20:59

And the word precious came to my mind.

You talked about, you know, the example of meeting with a a specialist, but exercise, nutrition, sleep, and spending time with people that we love or care about.

What are some factors at the organizational scale or some examples of businesses that have helped them become the most successful?

Or resilient?

What are what are some ways that you’ve really just seen organizations flourish?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 21:25

You want to look at factors that allow 1 of the ways sometimes to think about this is you’re looking at factors that will optimize the supply of energy and what’s in, you know, increasing it.

And also optimize how we’re managing the demands.

Right?

That’s the overall direction.

So examples of this could include increasing influence.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 21:46

So it’s that you’re a team leader and we’re wanting to increase resilience overall.

Maybe you’ve taken it on your shoulders to make decisions and propose and move things forward.

How about you step back a little bit and increase influence of the team?

Even if you have ideas, keep in mind, and me, most leaders will agree with me.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 21:51

The team will come up with even better ideas regardless.

Purely, logistically is

Marie-Helene Pelletier 22:10

a good idea.

But from a resilience perspective, now people are involved.

And as people are involved, they’re developing their technical term is self efficacy, the belief that we can influence this.

And when we’re increasing self efficacy, we’re increasing optimism.

We’re increasing agency.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 22:30

Oh, okay.

Now that sounds That’s starting to feel very strong, positive and engaging.

So that’s 1 example.

Another example, maybe to actually step back and look at the workload.

And it’s a tough topic because often people tell me There’s nothing we can do about the workbook.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 22:45

It is what it is.

And my invitation for having done it personally having worked with others.

I’ve seen it enough that it’s really worth exploring.

We’re not looking at changing 80 percent of that workload.

Obviously.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 23:08

We want to keep in mind that sometimes a small shift will have a large influence.

And so, and at times, it may mean to get very specific about, okay, concretely, image.

Like, how would you do this?

Sitting with the team and saying, okay, We’re all involved in this process.

Where is the moment where it’s most challenging?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 23:22

And the team will know.

It’s not the first few steps, it’s step number 3.

That’s when it’s like, Ugh, I don’t want to do it.

It extends forever, it doesn’t go well.

So now we found where the biggest challenge is.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 23:46

Let’s put the microscope on this and look for ways to make it a bit better, more whatever it needs and whether it’s more efficient.

Let’s let’s wait on just 1 person or a different way of handling handling whatever is challenging about it.

So we’ve taken the time to get in it and change it.

In that?

Sometimes will change the workload.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 24:37

So we want to these are some examples of ways in which we can help bring that resilience even overall psychological health in the organization, which then allows us to talk more about the challenges.

When we make mistakes, bring them up sooner and know that they’ll be, yeah, we’ll fix them, but we’ll also learn about with with from this experience.

And then what we’re doing is we’re we’re building a a culture that’s even more compassionate where we’re using a growth mindset.

So that everything’s perfect, but when something’s not working, we’re learning from it.

And you see how all these things nourish how we approach these challenges, which in the end will keep and nourish higher results even from an individual perspective, which translates in Teams.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 24:40

There are many other ways, but these are some examples of approaches.

Christine Gyovai 25:18

I hear stepping back.

Really looking, you know, where are the opportunities and challenges?

Giving breaths and space, for that self efficacy you talked about for recognizing the individual optimism and agency.

And then within teams to really look more broadly particularly where there are challenges that where are those most challenging moments and then to give them some space and air and breath a little bit it sounds like to identify, you know, explore where opportunities are that growth mindset you talked about to being able to continue to learn from challenges.

What other factors do you find really help grow the resilience within organizations for the long term.

Christine Gyovai 25:31

Are there factors that really help businesses or organizations be more resilient or flourish over multiple years?

When you have, you know, it’s a different time scale than short term work to some degree.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 26:06

Yes, 1 of the best ways to approach it again is to think of it as AAA strategy basically, you need to build it as a plan and a plan over years.

And what organizations have done is create a plan, actions within the main pillars.

And I’ll give you an example in a second.

And then you measure how that’s going and you evolve it over time.

So you want it’s important to keep in mind that, especially it’s a bit true on the individual scale.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 26:23

It’s not because we do 1 thing for ourselves, this morning that we’re now changed for the next 2 years.

Right?

It’s a long term investment.

It needs to be adjusted, that can take the same logic applies here.

And also, over here in the business, it’s the same you would approach the launch of a new service or a new project.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 26:46

Right?

So So we want to do that.

So I’ll give you an example, right?

So an organization may say, okay, we very much want to improve the resilience and the overall psychological health of our employees.

And 1 of the ways Or team members, 1 of the ways we’re going to do this is make sure that they are aware of the supports they have access to.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 27:05

And so then the actions maybe really talk about the types of resources we have access to.

Mention it quarterly meetings so that they know that as a culture, we support getting outside help, for example.

That may be an example.

Okay.

So then let’s say this is part of their plan, and they go and do this.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 27:22

Then they reevaluate, say 6 months or a year down the road on how that’s going, they may learn that in fact people have increased their use.

Wonderful.

They may also see that no 1 is using these services.

They’re not.

They’ve talked about it, but no 1 no 1 is.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 27:59

So then they may explore what is this about, is this that in this culture, even if we know it’s there, we don’t believe that it’s okay.

We will be seen as weak, for example.

So then that organization may say, all right, in which ways can we change that part of our culture?

And I’ve seen it before where this specific example I have in mind decided to create a peer support program within the organization.

Where peers were connecting with each other about their challenges, talking about these resources, but now the link was made.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 28:21

And that’s what worked for them.

So that’s just a small example in how to your point, yes, we need to look at this over time.

And we need to look at evaluating how that’s going, at our particular context, and adapt based on this.

It needs it’s a very much alive, it needs to evolve over time.

Yeah.

Christine Gyovai 28:55

And grounding it, whatever the situation may be, finding out like what the needs are.

I love that example of the peer support because then It’s really understanding what people need at the individual scale and finding out what collective resources are available but then being able to ground So what are some buffers that you found that people can put into place to you know, so there is the pause.

There is just simply taking a pause from things and resenting and regrounding taking time for yourself, but what are ways that people can work with the edge of burnout?

And then again, I’m being intentional about not saying burnout, but say, I’m feeling a little tired.

What does what does that look like?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 29:01

I work exclusively with people exactly like this.

It’s whole, the plain is full.

We value it, but

Marie-Helene Pelletier 29:14

It was just no time.

Okay.

So the short answer is the less you feel like investing in this.

The less you feel like exercising, the more you feel like, no.

I just need to sit down.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 29:34

The more it means you need to go.

It’s almost like a 1 plus 1 equals 2.

You know you should, you really don’t feel like it, go.

It’s like, and And sometimes people, very understandably, will say, well, but I so don’t feel like it, it can’t be what I need to do, I need to listen to myself.

In this case, no, behavior comes first.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 29:53

The behavior will flip things.

We don’t want to wait to feel like it, because as you were waiting to feel like we’re not doing it, and we’re going further down.

So we have to push the behavior.

And you can say, I’m doing it, but I don’t want to do it.

Doesn’t matter what you’re telling yourself in your head, in this case, go.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 30:00

Okay?

So the behavior first.

In this situation.

And then you might say, yes, yes, but MHI still don’t have time.

How am

Marie-Helene Pelletier 30:02

I gonna do this?

Okay.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 30:18

Then you scale it.

So if you’re usual and the recommended is often half an hour of exercise, right?

5 times a week.

Okay.

So if you cannot do half an hour, and plus number 1, before let me step back real quick sec.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 30:39

When you make your plan of in, because again, context.

So in Christine’s life right now, Are we going to try let’s say you’re exercising 0 right now, no physical activity whatsoever.

We’re absolutely not going to put in your plan.

To do 5 times a week half an hour.

Now, it makes no sense.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 30:52

We would want to build gradually.

So let’s take gradually.

Let’s start let’s say you’re right now at 0.

You used to, maybe, but recently nothing is happening.

So maybe a realistic plan is that you will go for 2 walks of 10 minutes per week.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 31:06

Okay.

So let’s say this is the plan.

And now you try to implement this plan.

But let’s say you get to the day where it’s supposed to be your 10 minutes and it’s so busy you believe you cannot do 10 minutes.

I’ll leave it at that for right now, but just say that’s the safe.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 31:27

Then I would say, put your shoes on and go for 2 minutes.

Step outside if you really cannot walk at all.

Step outside breathe for 1 minute come back in.

Of course, you’re not gonna have the benefits of having done cardio work for half an hour.

But what you have done you’re doing it at this point for the physical reason, you’re doing it for the psychological reason.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 31:42

This then, what it does, a number of things.

But 1 of the things is that it maintains the habit.

That in itself has value.

It also sends a message to yourself that you’re keeping this at the top of the list.

We’re making an exception.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 31:58

It’s not gonna be as long as usual or the plan, but we’re still keeping it there.

And these things over time allow you to continue to build, as opposed to stagnating, and then going in the other direction.

So these are ideas that will come to mind on this.

Christine Gyovai 32:23

And so when people have found that point of they fallen away from some of the habits they know that really help build their health resilience and well-being when they’ve started to reestablish those.

What really helps them move into, you know, beyond resilience to flourishing.

I think those 2 things come hand in hand, resilience and flourishing, but really what helps keep people in that optimal state?

That can be, you know, generative.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 32:40

I know.

And it’s a I do talk very much in this this direction in the book.

Because It does connect with our overall context.

And in this case, that also includes our values.

What we value personally.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 33:32

And that’s a key component of how you’re gonna get to a plan or a strategy here that feels like yours, feels like you want to do it.

Because then if you do that, and I actually have someone who came to a book related workshop last year as I was writing the book.

And then I ended up giving that workshop in her organization for her team of leaders.

And so she attended the thing twice, basically, but 3 months apart.

And she was reflecting on how when you make, when you create your own plan like this and it feels so much like yours and it’s absolutely realistic doable aligned with your values and your contacts, right, all these pieces that otherwise if we just try to follow outside guidelines, sometimes challenging.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 33:41

So if they’re, it’s very much yours, you will do it.

And you will see the benefits.

And then you can keep growing.

And that’s what happened for her.

She did that.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 34:02

Implemented the plan because it was so doable.

When she found herself here, she was like, oh my god, I really need to I’m ready to change my plan.

I’ve implemented this, I’m now turning myself to the next thing.

It was so energizing exactly for her, because yes, the values tend to be stable.

The things we value tend to be similar in time.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 34:12

But the context is different.

So what’s next for me?

And then you get to plan that.

And that in itself is extremely energized.

Christine Gyovai 34:42

So to to move into, you know, the last part of our conversation, I wanna bring some quick roller questions and a little bit more about you.

You know, I’ve to draw to this, I’ve really learned to prioritize the things that bring me joy as a way to build that energy and to focus on the things that bring me joy as keyway to continue to have the juice to do the work and all the good things in the world whether that’s personal or professional.

So I I love this question.

And tell us a little bit and nature about what brings you joy in your life.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 34:52

Very much enjoy being in nature in general but in mountains specifically.

Love that.

And then you might say, but you cannot be in the mountains all the time, m

Marie-Helene Pelletier 34:59

h, surely.

No, very often I’m not.

I’m in a city somewhere.

And however, and that’s the thing, right?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 35:12

Sometimes we think of what brings us joy, and then versions of it.

So, yeah, a version of it can be attending to 1 of those plants literally.

There are real plants here.

And that’s a big deal for me.

I used to not be very good with plants.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 35:32

But, yes, or it can be when I go for a walk outside.

My outside in this specific location is not a mountain.

However, it’s fresh air.

And the air smells differently today from yesterday, and I enjoy that.

And so looking for versions of it, but mountains would have to be the top of that list.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 35:32

Yeah.

Christine Gyovai 35:45

I love that mountains are so fabulous and finding what you can relate to in the moment.

We’ll keeping that bigger element of what brings you joy essential.

And and we’ve talked about this a little bit, but what keeps you moving forward on the days struggle.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 36:16

Probably my passion for doing what I do and also my confidence in the influence that I can have to change, you know, that particular situation.

So let’s say there’s just lots of demands happening at the same time, or I’ve had to compromise on how much physical activity I could do.

I know it will come back.

It’s just a moment where it got compressed for this, but tomorrow, it’s changing.

Okay.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 36:32

So it’s expanding perhaps the perspective, keeping where I’m going, and expanding the perspective to remind myself, okay.

No.

No.

Right now, we had to scale it down significantly.

It’s coming right back tomorrow so that it will be there for me, and and it is.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 36:38

That bigger perspective as a whole.

Absolutely.

So what key lessons learned would

Christine Gyovai 36:43

you share with others who are trying to create change within themselves or their organizations or communities?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 37:14

Yes.

I think I would say, Stay curious.

I’m gonna go with that.

Curious, because if we are curious, we’re looking, we’re gonna see things here, feel, realize, link, and and and it’s through that creativity that sometimes we’ll find solutions that we didn’t see yesterday, we didn’t see earlier today.

But if we have that mindset that we’re looking for them.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 37:18

It’s amazing.

Look, finally.

Yeah.

Christine Gyovai 37:31

Absolutely.

Yeah.

In that openness, I’ve been using the phrase a lot this year curiosity over control.

You know, when I have that control mindset, you know, often that stems from a place of fear.

But I also have a fixed mindset at that point.

Christine Gyovai 37:48

I’m not open to what might emerge, the unexpected.

And so that curiosity and creativity connection, there’s a lot of linkage there.

It’s a great connection point.

I love that.

So tell us m h what other thoughts or reflections you’d like to share and how people can learn more about you you, your work, and your upcoming book.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 37:52

I know.

Well, I’m sharing everything in that book, so that’s that’s

Marie-Helene Pelletier 38:03

my place.

Probably website is the easiest.

It’s d r like Dr.

Marie, MARIE hyphen, Helen, HELENE.

Dot com.

Christine Gyovai 38:10

Oh, wonderful.

We’ll include that in the show notes.

Wonderful.

Any other thoughts or reflections you’d like to share as we get ready to wrap up today?

Marie-Helene Pelletier 38:49

I think that the I would, in fact, go back to I think you’ve had really good questions.

We’ve covered so many important concepts.

I would say, what I want to come back to because so many people you work with, and work with also, are so dedicated wanting to do really good work, which have times, flows, at times, we’re wondering if it’s been a blow.

And and often, at 10, 1 way or the other, get to us a bit impersonally.

And so really, keeping in mind that thermometer of who you are, is the same read today than 3 months, 3 years ago.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 39:19

So, yes, this is a tough situation.

We’re acknowledging this and recognizing that, no, it doesn’t change your value as a person.

So that’s it, I think, a key 1 because that allows many other things to flow, and whether it’s here or somewhere else, better, and it protects your resilience.

So that’s 1 point I probably want to make sure we highlight so that we keep that, and then we can be part of this system in a really good contributing way.

Christine Gyovai 39:42

Mhmm.

Such a great point.

And it also helps depersonalize a challenging situation from who we are as individuals and say, this is a challenging moment, but this you know, I still have the foundational worth value connection and and we’re moving through difficult time with a growth mindset, as you said earlier, to be able to consider what the the longer term endgame is.

So such a great point.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 40:09

And the other piece I would add too is that and if, you know, your listeners are listening to this and they’re thinking, yeah, that all sounds good, but I cannot unstick myself from this, then that’s when you want to get it in a business.

That’s when we get a consultant.

We’re trying to do something we’ve tried and it’s not working, we need additional expertise, right?

Same thing here.

That’s when we need external expertise.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 40:25

Get connect with a psychologist, look into other resources you have around you because you may need someone else to help you unstick this or change the way you’re looking at it or what you’re doing.

Whatever.

Change something so that you get unstuck So it’s so

Christine Gyovai 40:42

important to to know that resilience is built in community, and often it takes those external consultants resources people to help us even think about things differently and find a new way forward.

So m h, thank you for such a lovely conversation today.

Excited to hear more about your book.

When it comes out, tell us when it is releasing.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 40:56

It’s releasing 02/06/2044, preorders in August just 6 months earlier, but you can get on the list if you connect with me on the website, and you’ll get the resilience planner if you do that.

So

Christine Gyovai 41:02

We love to all That’s that’s great.

So thank you so much for joining MHI appreciate it.

Marie-Helene Pelletier 41:04

Nice.

Have a pleasure, Christine.

Christine Gyovai 41:32

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Christine Gyovai 41:32

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